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 Post subject: Re: SPDIF Cable Length
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:40 pm 
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Hold on a second, if you are saying that reflections are insignificant then why are "longer cables better" for jitter.

This is beginning to go around in evasive circles, jocko - can you not make a definitive statement about this instead of just dancing about?

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 Post subject: Re: SPDIF Cable Length
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:46 pm 
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I am not going anywhere. You need to think about what happens when you have reflections that range from, say......-8 dB, down to say, -46 dB.

Your crap is more likely -8 dB. My crap is -40 dB or less. Who needs to worry about cable length more?

Jocko

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 Post subject: Re: SPDIF Cable Length
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:50 pm 
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Jocko Homo wrote:
I am not going anywhere. You need to think about what happens when you have reflections that range from, say......-8 dB, down to say, -46 dB.

Your crap is more likely -8 dB. My crap is -40 dB or less. Who needs to worry about cable length more?

Jocko


Look, Jocko, this is bullshit! You defended using long cables some posts ago, slated Lavry for short cables & now you're just being evasive & say who cares. What crap! You can't even be consistent!

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 Post subject: Re: SPDIF Cable Length
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:54 pm 
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I'm consistent. You can't seem to get your head screwed on in the right direction.

Either learn what reflections are, or don't waste my time. I have tried to explain it, and you seem more intent in believing what some shill has to say.

Jocko

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 Post subject: Re: SPDIF Cable Length
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:57 pm 
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jkeny, Jocko is an RF engineer, and more, working with audio stuff - not that normal.
You should take his word in more consideration than Lavry.

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 Post subject: Re: SPDIF Cable Length
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:01 pm 
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Jocko Homo wrote:
I'm consistent. You can't seem to get your head screwed on in the right direction.

Either learn what reflections are, or don't waste my time. I have tried to explain it, and you seem more intent in believing what some shill has to say.

Jocko


Are you still saying that longer SPDIF cables are better for jitter? Can you answer this question directly without evasion?

Carlos, I try not to take anybody's word at face value without a little question or two - so far with Jocko this has proven fruitless. I don't know what way you evaluate?

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 Post subject: Re: SPDIF Cable Length
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:05 pm 
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How much more clear do I need to make this???????

Shorter cables are worse for reflections, because they will arrive too close to the decision point.

How many more times are you going to make me post this?

How much more effort do I need to expend to get you to understand what reflections are? I know what they are. CG and GM know what they are. Only you and this Lavry guy don't seem to understand.

Until you understand, it won't matter how long you make your cable.

Jocko

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 Post subject: Re: SPDIF Cable Length
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:10 pm 
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Jocko Homo wrote:
How much more clear do I need to make this???????

Shorter cables are worse for reflections, because they will arrive too close to the decision point.

How many more times are you going to make me post this?

How much more effort do I need to expend to get you to understand what reflections are? I know what they are. CG and GM know what they are. Only you and this Lavry guy don't seem to understand.

Until you understand, it won't matter how long you make your cable.

Jocko


Finally ! So how do you square this with Gmarsh's post which makes sense & shows that shorter cables are better:
Quote:
If your cable is a half wavelength (24m) then that's bad. A reflection will bounce off the receiver, then the source, and hit the receiver again right when the next transition is hitting the receiver. We'll call this the "least optimal length".

If you shorten your cable to 12m (1/4 wave), then the 1st reflection will hit the receiver exactly between the initial transition and the next. Which is optimal for reducing the effect of the 1st transition. However, the 2nd reflection will hit the receiver at the beginning of the next transition. The 2nd reflection should be considerably less in magnitude than the 1st, and much better than the fundamental, but you can argue that this isn't optimal either.

Shorten your cable to 8m (1/6 wave), the 1st reflection will hit 1/3 through the receiver interval, the 2nd will hit 2/3 through, and the 3rd will hit with the next transition. We're getting better once again.

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 Post subject: Re: SPDIF Cable Length
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:15 pm 
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IT DOESN'T SHOW THAT IT IS BETTER!

That is the point that you are missing because you won't take the time to read the references that people have linked that explain reflections.

Jocko

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 Post subject: Re: SPDIF Cable Length
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:20 pm 
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Does it show that a shorter cable, in this instance, moves the 1st reflection's arrival further away from the decision point?

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 Post subject: Re: SPDIF Cable Length
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:33 pm 
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I'm heavier than my doctor believes strictly healthy for my height, but that I can accept...*

I f I jump into the bath, the water that slops out both ends from the bow wave can be something to behold.
If I jump into a swimming pool, no one notices
If my bathtub had soft resistive 'beaches' both ends it simply wouldn't annoy my neighbour downstairs.

HTH



*we can get good pho here , too.


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 Post subject: Re: SPDIF Cable Length
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:08 pm 
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People who won't take the time to understand what reflections are, or who don't care what they are (and therefore have no effect), don't need to worry about how long the cable is.

it is that simple.

Bits is bits.

Same for jitter. Bits is bits because jitter you can't hear.

Jocko

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 Post subject: Re: SPDIF Cable Length
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:14 pm 
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Hilarious !

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 Post subject: Re: SPDIF Cable Length
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:25 am 
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jkeny wrote:
Hold on a second, if you are saying that reflections are insignificant then why are "longer cables better" for jitter.

Maybe longer cables make reflections insignificant.


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 Post subject: Re: SPDIF Cable Length
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:29 am 
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Martin Clark wrote:
I'm heavier than my doctor believes strictly healthy for my height, but that I can accept...*
I f I jump into the bath, the water that slops out both ends from the bow wave can be something to behold.
If I jump into a swimming pool, no one notices
If my bathtub had soft resistive 'beaches' both ends it simply wouldn't annoy my neighbour downstairs.

Exactly, this is called "termination" - a resitive load that will dampen the reflected wave. The decison element is like a plank at that end of the pool - plank that activates a switch. Both ends of the pool have that mat that attenuates the reflected wave. The travelling wave looses very little energy during travel so the main attenuation is at the ends.
So I guess, the discution is how much that little reflected wave affects the plank when it comes back. And when.


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