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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:47 pm 
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Muriel
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Folks,

I have on occasion called this place the "refugee camp".

It means a place where it is to debate free from the shackles imposed elsewhere.

Based on recent happenings I get the feeling that it is just another ego trip for some individuals. I hope I am wrong.

Here is the challenge and request. Do you agree or disagree?

I personally would like a forum that is both open and polite about discussion.

I should have have hoped that this place is it.

So here is my question to the person who bankrolls it - do we need a reform?

If not, if we just shut down any controversial thread, why do we bother?

Ciao T

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:18 pm 
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Cow

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:09 am
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Like you I think that purpose of a forum is to discuss. That means that we might not be in agreement always. Actually that's the interesting part, when you argue and hopefully learn something different.
I know what are you talking about. I am paranoiac about censorship too... I guess you need to be raised without freedoms to really appreciate them.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:17 am 
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Benjamin
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Location: Somewhere other than here.
OK, the history..............

A certain individual, who is nothing more than a bag of hot air, convinced me that we should start a new forum, to free ourselves of the tyrannical fascism of that other place. Said individual had "lots of great ideas", which, as per his usual modus operandi, was nothing more than empty promises.

But, despite my misgivings, a group of individuals coalesced, and we started this place. Pedja, Roiibm, Elso, CarlosFM, and others were part of this group. I forget all the petty details, but at one point over the years, the domain name was registered to myself or Pedja. We both took turns providing the hosting. But, there are other things in life, and a lot of the initial gang was no longer able to keep up with helping to run this place. My health continued to deteriorate, and due to lack of "support", I also bowed out. At that point, it was close to shutting down. Somehow, Elso and Roiibm decided to pick up the slack, and keep it open. I believe Elso pays the registration, and Roiibm provides the hosting. Or close to that. So, at this point, your questions are best directed at them.

Now...............if you asked them if they would consider giving someone else a chance to run this place.............well, I can not speak for them, but you would be surprised how soon the task can wear you down. So, maybe they would be open to letting someone else try their hand. You never know.

One of the lingering problems, that existed since Day One, is what the hell are we trying to accomplish? I dunno. Mr. Bag of Hot Air said he had all sorts of ideas, most of which revolved around "projects". Somehow, he felt it was the job of "leadership" (read: JH) to come up with these projects.

WHAT? I don't even build stuff for myself, and I was supposed to come up with projects? For guys that I really do not have much in common with? Hey, if I have an idea for a project, I will turn into something that I can put food on the table with. (Most do not believe me, but I have no visible means of financial support. If can make a buck, with audio, I damn sure am not going to give it away. Especially when it can buy pasta e fagioli.)

So, scratch that idea. If I had fully known that individual really expected me to come up with projects, this place, in all likelihood, would have never happened. So, if not that, then what?

My idea................not sure I would call it a refugee camp, but definitely a place where we can beat each other up, without being subjected to the usual crap that passes for open discussion, over at that gulag.

The problem with that...........at least from my perspective............is that certain malcontents still were not happy. They lectured me on how stupid I was, because none of my actions were growing the forum. If it grew fine. If it didn't, also fine. In fact, with almost no support or help, it was to my benefit if it didn't grow. It was hard enough to manage, without bringing in more refugees. Each new batch of arrivals wanted their voices/demands to be heard. Yet, they were not paying for the domain registration, the hosting, or willing to help moderate. Instead, they would kvetch that I had no idea how to use SEO optimization (never said I did!), and grew discontented. (Instead of offering to help, they made sites dedicated to what a horse's butt I am.) ( I am, so what?)

Out of frustration, I not only stopped being willing to run this place, but also lost interest in posting.

And guess what.................when the head rebel is silent, the forum is silent. (As a sidebar, in what some will mistakenly call an act of selfish egotism, I demonstrated that you don't need SEO, but just the right buzzwords, on a non-existent site, to generate traffic. Having proved my point, I returned.)

But, I am not interested it taking an active role. Call it old age...........call it poverty...........call it just "being a dick" (in Charlie Hansen-speak), but someone else needs to run the show. I don't want to see the place dry up and blow away, but I will put this forward:

Running a forum is a giant PITA. Even one without a lot of traffic, you still need to play traffic cop. Someone will always be upset if you let something linger too long, just as someone will be upset that it should be allowed to live. You can not win. In either case, you risk running someone off. Sometimes, you run off both sides of the debate.

So, unless you have done it, or are willing to try your hand at running it, your argument(s) have a tad less merit than those of us who have. But, I am not the fascist my critics make me out to be. I'll listen, to any and all gripes. I can not speak for the 2 individuals, who are now charged with running this place, so do not take my reply as anything other than my personal position.

So, if you have ideas, let's hear them. Especially if you are willing to have "skin in the game".

But..............Mr. T has commercial interests. We welcomed folks from industry, but we had to make certain there was no attempt, tacit or explicit, to seem as if we were promoting someone or something. (That was also a sticking point, as we picked up a few individuals from industry. I was always accused of letting them get away with murder. Which was funny, as I was not responsible for them being here, but was also not aware of their mere existence, prior to their emergence here. True story. I had known Charlie Hansen, for many years. And got to know a certain figure sometimes referred to as The Devil. Other than that...............outside of Phred and Mr. Gas Bag, everyone here is a stranger to me.)

(OK..............you can say I am the one who is strange. Fine. I can live with that.)

So...................back to your point..........................what do you propose, if anything? Or are you just looking under the lid, to see what is there? I'm open to listening, as I said. The real PTB................you will have to wait for them to see this,


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:02 am 
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Cow

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:09 am
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History is cool.
Being curious, I did dig this out:
roiibm wrote:
I have the right name for you, phred... "Gigi Contra"


Hmm... another Romanian... small world.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:07 am 
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Muriel
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Jocko,

Jocko Homo wrote:
OK, the history..............


I pretty much knew the score, but thanks for filling in some blanks.

Jocko Homo wrote:
But..............Mr. T has commercial interests.


And I have generally been quite studious about not discussing my commercial stuff in any particular on-line venue for home-made audio, especially as little if any of it is of particular interest to that crowd.

In fact, you will find more threads started by others debating what is being done in my latest product and how or what specific chip is used and so on,that anything I have started or posted even mentioning anything commercial.

"That's all I have to say about that." (Forrest Gump)

Jocko Homo wrote:
So...................back to your point..........................what do you propose, if anything?


We either can have a place that allows open debate, in which case there may be more refugees in future, or we can shut down any debate that gets interesting and keep a sleepy, quiet forum where nothing ever happens.

I think it would be good if TPTB could nail their colours to the mast and make clear what style of debate is encouraged and what should not be posted. Then everyone can draw their own conclusions and act accordingly.

Personally, I would like to see this place provide an alternative to "that place", a place where the unvarnished truth may be spoken, in a polite way of course, no matter how inconvenient such a truth my be to either commercial interests of members or how much it goes against deeply held and cherished beliefs.

What I do not see happening on the other hand is that a lot of free "high end" designs are being "given away" (group buy coming up next week) creating a large crowd of hangers on...

So, put succinctly, I would like to see Free Speech, not Free Beer (remind me to buy you a few cold ones Jocko, should we bump into each other, Elso and roiibm too)...

Ciao T

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"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." Richard Feynman


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:29 am 
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Cow
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Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:14 pm
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Quote:
Personally, I would like to see this place provide an alternative to "that place", a place where the unvarnished truth may be spoken, in a polite way of course, no matter how inconvenient such a truth my be to either commercial interests of members or how much it goes against deeply held and cherished beliefs.

What I do not see happening on the other hand is that a lot of free "high end" designs are being "given away" (group buy coming up next week) creating a large crowd of hangers on...

So, put succinctly, I would like to see Free Speech, not Free Beer (remind me to buy you a few cold ones Jocko, should we bump into each other, Elso and roiibm too)...


+1


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:48 pm 
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Benjamin
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Well, when I ran it.................

I pretty much let things run its course. However, there was always a horse's butt (or 2) that made me go into fascist mode. Which resulted in yet another site dedicated to how much of a fascist I am.

Seriously, and I obviously can not speak for Elso, there are days that redundant gibberish gets on your nerves. There are one or two items I would have done about the same thing. Not to stifle debate. But to get the idjits to go find something else to do for a week or two. I was never in favor of giving folks a vacation, just because they were dense as depleted uranium, on one particular subject. Maybe that was the wrong approach, as it led to some subjects being put on hold. Which, in theory, could have stifled more people.

So, what do you do? Some folks don't know how to take a hint. They want to continue to flog the proverbial dead horse. Even if you close something down, as soon as you open it back up, they return with their whipping stick.

As a side note............or should I say side track................

When I ran this place, I did not have Supreme Power, as my critics thought I did. The proof?

If I did, there would be a helluva less members!

"This guy annoys me..................gone."
"This guy has always been a jerk..............gone."
"This guy? Really? He wants to join here? Give me a friggin' break..........registration DENIED!"
"What? Didn't this guy get the message I hate his guts, from my days at that other place? What was he thinking? Oh, wait.............he wasn't.................he never does think! Gone................"
Etc.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:14 pm 
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Goat

Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 5:26 pm
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Location: Nova Scotia
The SNR is great here, and that's why I love this place. We don't tend to get into arguments here about NP0 capacitors making great decoupling caps.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:23 am 
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Cow
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Quote:
another ego trip for some individuals

do you ever look at yourself in the mirror?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:52 am 
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Admin

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:43 pm
Posts: 891
WTF is going on here? :scratch:
What thread did get closed and why was it closed?

Happy 2014.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:32 pm 
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Muriel
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Hi,

roiibm wrote:
WTF is going on here? :scratch:


Diyhifimaidan?

(a reference to Euromaidan in the Ukraine)

roiibm wrote:
What thread did get closed and why was it closed?


I cannot remember which one (the drinking session over the new year wiped out all my short and mid term memory), but it was one that got somewhat interesting (if agitated) and seemed to the dislike of some despite that and got chop. Not that busy here between September and now.

The main point was - do we kill threads because people get excited, because they have strong opinions and want to debate them or because we just do not like what is being said, regardless of form or content (this approach tends to be strong in the "dark site")?

Or do work the opposite way, which is to leave threads open and if individuals are out of the bounds of being polite or at least factual (if impolite) to give them a warning (PUBLICALLY) and if that does not help a short cool off period? If some people go against the local consensus too often, too many times, people can always vote them off.

Anyway, as I often say about the rest of the world, "I only live here, I did not make it or the rules it works by."

Ciao T

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"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." Richard Feynman


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:50 pm 
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Admin

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:43 pm
Posts: 891
I'm not happy about killing no threads, unless there are personal attacks (not to be confused with attacking personal theories which is fine with me), obvious marketing campaigns or obvious trolling involved.

I'd so very much hate to see this place censored like the pub back in the day when we started this forum. Elso and the others, please respect the opinions of all members, regardless of whether you personally like them or hate them, without closing threads and stuff. Thanks!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:26 am 
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Board jester
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Hi, I closed this thread f.a.:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2296
If you guys are here to post f-words I better quit as I will not waste my time managing a kindergarten!
:mad: :mad: :mad:
Geesh

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:21 am 
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Muriel
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Elso,

Elso Kwak wrote:
Hi, I closed this thread


That was not the one closed I took exception to and you know it.

Ciao T

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"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." Richard Feynman


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:28 am 
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Board jester
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Kuei Yang Wang wrote:
Elso,

Elso Kwak wrote:
Hi, I closed this thread


That was not the one closed I took exception to and you know it.

Ciao T

You, yourself reported it:
"I do think this entirely unwarranted..."
Your words, not mines quoted.
:finga:

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