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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 1:08 pm 
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Muriel
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Hi,

yldouright wrote:
Most notable of these is the premise that the audio standard should be the priority and that this standard is an evolving, statistical distribution curve that end users can rely upon for a predictable audio experience.


Statistics are a way of codifying the mean, the average.

Timothy F.X. Finnegan, wrote: "The average Canadian has one testicle, just like Adolph Hitler -- or, more precisely, the average Canadian has 0.96 testicles, an even sadder plight than Hitler's, if the average Anything actually existed."

He then went on to demonstrate that the normal or average human lives in substandard housing in Asia, has 1.04 vaginas, cannot read or write, suffers from malnutrition and never heard of Silken Thomas Fitzgerald or Brian Boru.

"The normal," he concluded "consists of a null set which nobody and nothing really fits."

Ciao T

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 6:33 pm 
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Kuei Yang Wang
If you think that's all statistics can do you know as little about them as I do about electronics, maybe less :D

carlosfm
I have built stuff from kits that sound pretty good but not as good as other stuff I've heard and that's probably because I don't have the tools to measure and tweak. That's why this whole voicing an amplifier thing should ideally be a cooperative. The link is here for anyone interested in participating.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:24 pm 
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Dog
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yldouright wrote:
I have built stuff from kits that sound pretty good but not as good as other stuff I've heard and that's probably because I don't have the tools to measure and tweak.


Look, even if you did have the tools, what would you measure?
You think you can explain everything you hear with measurements, well, you can't.
You can improve things yes, but by improving the measured results, you can't predict how will it sound.
And it's not your "framework" that is going to solve that dilemma.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:24 am 
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carlosfm
I'd measure the components to see how closely they match their specs prior to putting them in a circuit. I'd take measurements of inductance. capacitance along with charge/discharge profiles and characterize each component so that all circuit behavior can be more completely analyzed. Once put together, I'd measure noise floors, O/L bandwidth, slew rate and distortion characteristics with their harmonic profiles. Hell, I'd look at everything I could until I could figure out with confidence what does what to the sonic outcome. This would be an impossible road for a single participant but absolutely achievable in a collaborative effort. The lack of equipment would not be my only limitation, I'm sure that there are procedures and practices that I am unaware of that will yield the most reliable numbers. This situation is shared to a much lesser degree by many of you reading but you are all familiar with it. The better the information accumulated, the easier it will be to tie the circuit characteristics to the audible preference. The thing is, a lot of this work has already been done by many of you in pieces over the course of your lives so a framework specifying audio products along representative guidelines could become a reality sooner than anyone could imagine. You have to ask yourself the question, who is it sounding for? If you answer that you have to see the logic and benefit of my framework in how it addresses the 'dilemma' you describe.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 4:24 pm 
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Benjamin
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AND NONE OF THAT IS GOING TO TELL YOU CRAP, BUT YOU DON'T BELIEVE IT.

Not our problem, but you are.

If you are not trolling, you need a lobotomy.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:43 pm 
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Dog
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:shock:


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:45 pm 
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Muriel
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Hi,

yldouright wrote:
Kuei Yang Wang
If you think that's all statistics can do you know as little about them as I do about electronics, maybe less :D


I did stats' at academic level quite seriously for my 2nd degree (my first was more about hard engineering, not soft stuff). Not as main subject mind you, but enough to be painfully aware of the limitations and pitfalls of the method. That is without invoking occult angles.

I will repeat, statistics tells you about averages and how far a given "event" is "abnormal". They tell you zip about anything that by definition is "above normal", except how likely it is to happen.

I think you need to take a few more modules in stats' to understand what they can and cannot deliver.

Ciao T

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:05 pm 
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Muriel
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Hi,

yldouright wrote:
I'd measure the components to see how closely they match their specs prior to putting them in a circuit.


You may rest assured, that unless you managed to buy cheap Chinese fakes, they will meet their published spec's. Given how prevalent cheap Chinese fakes have become, verifying performance seems sensible.

yldouright wrote:
I'd take measurements of inductance. capacitance along with charge/discharge profiles and characterize each component so that all circuit behavior can be more completely analyzed.


All these (and many more) can be assigned objective numbers. But do these numbers correlate with good sound?

yldouright wrote:
Once put together, I'd measure noise floors, O/L bandwidth, slew rate and distortion characteristics with their harmonic profiles. Hell, I'd look at everything I could until I could figure out with confidence what does what to the sonic outcome.


Good luck. You will need it. You are familiar with the story of Mullah Nasruddin and his keys?

yldouright wrote:
This would be an impossible road for a single participant but absolutely achievable in a collaborative effort.


It would be totally and absolutely possible for a single experimenter with suitable resources, it has zero chance as a collaborative effort.

Seriosuly.

yldouright wrote:
I'm sure that there are procedures and practices that I am unaware of that will yield the most reliable numbers.


:wtf: :yahoo: :beg: :cool:

I am sure that you need to learn a LOT more, grasshopper.

yldouright wrote:
The better the information accumulated, the easier it will be to tie the circuit characteristics to the audible preference. The thing is, a lot of this work has already been done by many of you in pieces over the course of your lives


Yup. And we get results. And we do not suffer fools.

yldouright wrote:
so a framework specifying audio products along representative guidelines


A framework has been proposed over the last 70 years and has in some corners been refined. There is no need to invent it, it already has. It just needs applying. I usually do and my own experience etc. at best fills in small gaps left.

The problem is not an absence of method, of data or of substance. The problem is that most people who matter prefer to do a amazing imitation of an ostrich sticking it's head into the mud...

Ciao T

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:19 am 
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Kuei Yang Wang
Before I prepare a more complete reply, tell me if I am the mullah or the aide in your anecdote.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:37 pm 
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Muriel
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Hi,

yldouright wrote:
Before I prepare a more complete reply, tell me if I am the mullah or the aide in your anecdote.


1) It is NOT MY anecdote

http://worldreligionanna.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/mullah-nasruddin-and-lost-keys.html

2) If you have to ask... :rolleyes:

Ciao T

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:27 am 
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Benjamin
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I don't think the light is bright enough......................


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:29 pm 
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JockoHomo
I have a point of view and you disagree with it. That's no reason to be insulting.

Kuei Yang Wang
I stated it as yours only as a convention of language as in 'you' presented it, so it's yours. Why would you make the stupid supposition that I would believe you to be the author? I recognized the parable from my readings of the Sufi mystics and knew the origin prior to your link and you still haven't answered my question. I can see myself in both roles depending on the perspective used so I just want to know yours. Just some background information, the parables of the Sufi mystics are meant more as a meditative exercise than an instructional guideline and the ambiguity evidenced in them is both prominent and purposeful. I am not surprised that you tried to skew it's meaning to buttress your position. It is a typical error made by those indoctrinated with western (ie: narrowing) thinking. I'll concede that you know more about electronic circuit design but I'd be real careful about trying to claim any other kind of intellectual superiority.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:40 pm 
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You have repeatedly insulted those of us who work (or have worked) in the industry, for concealing secret information that has never existed. Along with our intelligence. And by not backing this idiotic framework that it is proof that we are actively continuing the concealment of said non-existent information. And doing great harm to the industry.

Along with giving most of us a headache.

If there was only some way of finding out how much they know, and making them pay."


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:40 pm 
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Lot of traffic, waste of time.....
:yahoo:

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:52 pm 
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yldouright wrote:
Kuei Yang Wang
...
It is a typical error made by those indoctrinated with western (ie: narrowing) thinking.

Oy?
Not directed to me, but still...
This kind of segregation doesn't favour you. And your framework.
Go suck some resistors and cool down.

Elso Kwak wrote:
Lot of traffic, waste of time.....

Yeah, tamagochi stuff is popular. And useless.

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"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the opposite direction." Albert Einstein


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