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 Post subject: Re: I call "Bullshit!"
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:07 pm 
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Cow

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:09 am
Posts: 280
john curl wrote:
T, I presume you are saying that when an ESS chip plays SACD, it loses something important?

Some people are obsessed those days of 'DSD pure mode'. It's the new fad and manufacturers are advertising DSD as a mean to improve sales, you know that very well I guess.
The fact that DSD is inferior to native D-S formats inside the DAC chips (including ESS chip) it doesn't matter to the purists. They just care about the new SACD rips that they just discovered now on torrents...
Answer to your rhetorical question is "no, it looses nothing during conversion, because is nothing to lose to start with".


Last edited by SoNic on Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I call "Bullshit!"
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:07 pm 
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Cow

Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:13 am
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Location: Catalonia New Europe State
WM8742 converts DSD to PCM...


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 Post subject: Re: I call "Bullshit!"
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:10 pm 
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Cow

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You can choose not to, in 'Direct DSD' mode. Of course you loose the multibit D-S advantages and you revert to crappy 1 bit D-S. They call the PCM conversion 'DSD Plus' for that exact reason.
Quote:
Direct or PCM converted DSD paths (DSD Plus)


Image


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 Post subject: Re: I call "Bullshit!"
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:14 pm 
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Cow

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SoNic wrote:
john curl wrote:
T, I presume you are saying that when an ESS chip plays SACD, it loses something important?

Some people are obsessed those days of 'DSD pure mode'. It's the new fad and manufacturers are advertising DSD as a mean to improve sales, you know that very well I guess.
The fact that DSD is inferior to native D-S formats inside the DAC chips (including ESS chip) it doesn't matter to the purists. They just care about the new SACD rips that they just discovered now on torrents...
Answer to your rhetorical question is "no, it looses nothing during conversion, because is nothing to lose to start with".


Not all people do like you guess, I bought DSD64 & DSD128 files and you?


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 Post subject: Re: I call "Bullshit!"
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:24 pm 
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Cow

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Sorry, I have SACD's with the music that I like. DSD128 with music that I don't care of is just an exercise in futility.
On my dime, I found out that rock music doesn't sound better on SACD. DireStraits, PinkFloyd, ThePolice, RoxyMusic...


Last edited by SoNic on Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I call "Bullshit!"
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:35 pm 
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Cow

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DSD files played with a SACD isn't my coup of te....

Are you listened DSD files trought PC?


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 Post subject: Re: I call "Bullshit!"
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:39 pm 
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Cow

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To buy high quality DSD files (DSF & DFF) go here (not affiliated) http://shop.dsdfile.com/


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 Post subject: Re: I call "Bullshit!"
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:03 pm 
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Cow

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felipe wrote:


T more info about DXD http://dsd-guide.com/faq/what-dxd-it-dsd#.Uj8F9dJ8qD8

N.B. please don't delete your posts where you wrote about DXD.


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 Post subject: Re: I call "Bullshit!"
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:03 pm 
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Cow

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Like I said, they don't have nothing of value - at least not for me. Four 'classical' and four 'jazz'. Click on 'pop/rock' tab:
Quote:
Nothing Found
It seems we can’t find what you’re looking for. Perhaps searching can help.


All the 'downloadable' DSD stores have the same issue - especially valid on native 128DSD. Crappy music that nobody wants.
DXD? DXD is a PCM format that is a very high sampling rate of 352.8MHz / 24bit. No 'native DSD' for you, purists.

PS: Most of my favorite music was originated in 96k/24 bit - that is plenty.


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 Post subject: Re: I call "Bullshit!"
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:19 pm 
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Cow

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Sonic that's a good recorded free DSD file http://bluecoastrecords.com/free-downloads


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 Post subject: Re: I call "Bullshit!"
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:20 pm 
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Cow

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I'm not a purist, are you PCM purist?


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 Post subject: Re: I call "Bullshit!"
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:25 pm 
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Cow

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Kuei Yang Wang wrote:
John,

john curl wrote:
T, I presume you are saying that when an ESS chip plays SACD, it loses something important?


I cannot directly speak of SACD on the ESS, I never bought anything Oppo.

These days all my digital sources are merged into a PC(s), including DSD Playback (PS3 SACD rips an new DSD only recordings).

If playing DSD using a native DSD DAC, that is a DAC that does not perform digital manipulation on the DSD data (e.g.WM8742) I find the results are preferable to any of the many DAC's that do not keep DSD native and/or or the same Chip in "DSD Plus" (read DSD is converted to PCM) mode.

I also prefer DSD native to a very expensive DAC using the ESS playing DSD. Best SACD/DSD to my ears is still a Vacuum State modified original Sony (on it's third drive system IIRC).

I still prefer however at at least dual speed (24/88.2 or 24/96) or HDCD native PCM recordings to DSD, by a long stretch.

Ciao T


If you really want to try 1 bit DAC use CS4398.


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 Post subject: Re: I call "Bullshit!"
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:26 pm 
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Cow

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SoNic wrote:
Like I said, they don't have nothing of value - at least not for me. Four 'classical' and four 'jazz'. Click on 'pop/rock' tab:
Quote:
Nothing Found
It seems we can’t find what you’re looking for. Perhaps searching can help.


All the 'downloadable' DSD stores have the same issue - especially valid on native 128DSD. Crappy music that nobody wants.
DXD? DXD is a PCM format that is a very high sampling rate of 352.8MHz / 24bit. No 'native DSD' for you, purists.

PS: Most of my favorite music was originated in 96k/24 bit - that is plenty.


Sonic SQ isn't correlated to you fav songs.


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 Post subject: Re: I call "Bullshit!"
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:18 pm 
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Cow

Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2004 11:48 pm
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Fascinating! I found SACD disappointing too, compared to 24/96K, but I did not know why. I once had a Vinyl recording instead of the SACD, and it was WONDERFUL! Now the vinyl is out of print.
Now I am still relatively 'clueless' about this subject, but I am learning.


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 Post subject: Re: I call "Bullshit!"
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:30 pm 
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Muriel
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:45 pm
Posts: 1167
Sonic,

SoNic wrote:
Answer to your rhetorical question is "no, it looses nothing during conversion, because is nothing to lose to start with".


Actually, it looses two things.

1) Information - converting from one format to another can never be lossless. How much do we need to loose from 2.8224MHz single bit before it sounds even worse?

2) The lowpass filtering removes (or at least substantially reduces) the high level steady state ultrasonic noise, which gives DSD it's characteristic sound.

Now to many people the result of converting DSD to PCM may actually sound BETTER than native DSD, BUT it does not sound the same as DSD, which is what the DSD fanboys want.

For me personally, where I cannot get decent PCM, I play DSD converted to PCM on a Multibit PCM DAC.

Ciao T

_________________
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." Richard Feynman


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