DIYHiFi.org

For the sake of audio
It is currently Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:44 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 68 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:08 am 
Offline
Benjamin
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 3:29 pm
Posts: 4330
Location: Somewhere other than here.
Once again, we are the idiots, and you are the genius, because this idea is....................well, it sure ain't genius.....................

Yes, we are doing a great disservice telling you that is this is the dumbest idea of all times.

Why is it that NO ONE agrees with you? There must be a reason. Your argument is full of flaws, all have which been pointed out, yet you persist. Don't you have anything else better to do? Get a girlfriend, or whatever, to occupy your time. You are in serious need of a break.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:50 am 
Offline
Cow

Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 11:48 pm
Posts: 112
JockoHomo
The dumbest idea of all time? Hyperbole much? I honestly don't know if it's a mental block with you that prevents you seeing this as the positive breakthrough it could be or if you're defending what you feel is personal value in the form of knowledge but either way, your objection is noted. I will point out that your criticisms so far have not obviated the logic, postulates or deterministic conclusion of adopting my framework. In my experience, you don't need to be an idiot to act like one. Why wouldn't you just do one amp with me and see how this would work in action? This goes for all reading, we'll pick just one amp project to do, tweak, measure and report the postulate rating. I've offered two with no takers.

You know I love you Giacomo, you are the inspiration for this framework so it pains me that you don't see its value.

_________________
When slugs are hungry for the truth, they find a way to devour the most elaborate lying gardens :)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:35 pm 
Offline
Dog
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:26 pm
Posts: 4981
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
yldouright wrote:
My framework will provide this with elegance and aplomb.


I've got this feeling that you are trying to sell something.
I'm not buying it.

_________________
Carlos Filipe

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the opposite direction." Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:35 pm 
Offline
Muriel
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:45 pm
Posts: 1163
Hi,

yldouright wrote:
The dumbest idea of all time? Hyperbole much?


I used to try to lay all sorts of girl's, who gave me my marching orders.

I hit a lot of iron, I got a few girls.

but I realised my problem was I wanted the girls. They did not want me, so I had to work hard to get any tail.

I figured it out once I got to working as live sound engineer and DJ. I needed the Chix to want me...

Suddenly the girls wanted me (and I mean hot chix not mingers and I mean a BJ for playing their song and then meeting them later).

Physically I had not changed. Mentally I did.

So, if you think your idea is not dumb, make sure we all want to sign up (and d**p-throat your d**k).

Ciao T

_________________
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." Richard Feynman


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:43 pm 
Offline
Cow

Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 11:48 pm
Posts: 112
Kuei Yang Wang
Yeah, I'm sure you're quite the manly man. I hope we get a chance to meet one day, should be interesting.

carlosfm
In a sense, yes, I am selling an idea and its cost is its active use in a trial amp development build. This is piddly compared to what can be gained not only for the participants but also for the buying public.

_________________
When slugs are hungry for the truth, they find a way to devour the most elaborate lying gardens :)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:45 pm 
Offline
Dog
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:26 pm
Posts: 4981
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
yldouright wrote:
carlosfm
In a sense, yes, I am selling an idea and its cost is its active use in a trial amp development build.


One amp is one amp.
Another amp is another amp.
How you are going to take conclusions out of one amp, beats me.
Or else, it's a never ending framework. It will outlast you.

_________________
Carlos Filipe

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the opposite direction." Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:55 pm 
Offline
Cow

Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 11:48 pm
Posts: 112
carlosfm
Yes, it is never ending and constantly evolving and it's designed to be that way. Preferences are that way and so should everything in life that is a choice be the same way. The only logical way to define any life experience is with a distribution curve. That is the only way to escape the tyranny and potential for corruption of placing the power of life choices in the hands of so few. Remember, we are addressing taste and meeting our needs along that curve. Yes, one amp is one amp and another amp is another amp but when you have a cohesive set of descriptions to describe how they sound and a table of electrical characteristics that correspond to those measurements, a set of truths will begin to emerge. You made an objection earlier about comparing a multi-chip vs. single chip amp implementation. Both of those amps will produce the three postulates in their own distinct measure and both of those amps will have distinct electrical characteristics that can be compared. Two builds of one pair of amps will tell us practically nothing but six builds of the same amp will tell us a whole lot more.
Have you finally grasped the concept of what I'm trying to do and how it will work?

_________________
When slugs are hungry for the truth, they find a way to devour the most elaborate lying gardens :)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 1:58 am 
Offline
Benjamin
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 3:29 pm
Posts: 4330
Location: Somewhere other than here.
yldouright wrote:
The only logical way to define any life experience is with a distribution curve.


Life needs a distribution curve? How did mankind evolve from pooh-slinging cave dwellers, without a distribution curve to tell us how far from the mean we are deviating?

This gets more ludicrous each and every day.

Quote:
That is the only way to escape the tyranny and potential for corruption of placing the power of life choices in the hands of so few.


I thought that is why we fought a Revolutionary War, and wrote the Constitution. Gee, you mean all we need is a bell curve? How did our Founding Fathers not know that. Guess they weren't that smart, were they?

Quote:
Remember, we are addressing taste and meeting our needs along that curve.


What makes a good tasting pizza: cheese made with whole milk, so it is really gooey, and red peppers, onions and mushrooms. None of which I can eat. Now I know why I am miserable! Better make a bell curve to demonstrate that.

Quote:
Yes, one amp is one amp and another amp is another amp but when you have a cohesive set of descriptions to describe how they sound and a table of electrical characteristics that correspond to those measurements, a set of truths will begin to emerge.


THERE ARE NO ELECTRICAL MEASUREMENTS THAT CORRESPOND TO HOW IT WILL SOUND.

That is the only truth, and it does not need to emerge, as everyone here already knows that. With one very obvious exception.

Quote:
You made an objection earlier about comparing a multi-chip vs. single chip amp implementation. Both of those amps will produce the three postulates in their own distinct measure and both of those amps will have distinct electrical characteristics that can be compared.


NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Quote:
Two builds of one pair of amps will tell us practically nothing but six builds of the same amp will tell us a whole lot more.


Yes..................you can not get a bunch of hobbyists to make something identical, even if you tell them how to make them identical.

Since you have ZERO experience in manufacturing:

"Anyone can build one of something, and it might work. Want to impress me? Make a thousand of them, and if they all work............." - Former boss.

Quote:
Have you finally grasped the concept of what I'm trying to do and how it will work?


We already did. But you will not believe us.

Say "hi" to that Japanese guy, if you ever meet him..................


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:27 am 
Offline
Dog
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:26 pm
Posts: 4981
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
yldouright wrote:
That is the only way to escape the tyranny and potential for corruption of placing the power of life choices in the hands of so few.

I find it unacceptable that you constantly bash those that work hard to design, build - and eventually sell - something that sounds good.
You want to have that "power"? GO STUDY.

yldouright wrote:
Have you finally grasped the concept of what I'm trying to do and how it will work?

Now look, we have to talk. :D
Have you finally grasped that I don't believe any of what you are trying to do, and how it will not work?

_________________
Carlos Filipe

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the opposite direction." Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:29 pm 
Offline
Cow

Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 11:48 pm
Posts: 112
carlosfm
I grasped it but don't understand it. Is it the nature of the projects I've suggested so far that don't interest you? You like op-amps and have successfully used the AD811, would you be interested in a composite design around parallel LM3875s? I've never bashed anyone for what they know, particularly anyone who knows audio and if you would look past your nose, you would understand I could be their greatest champion.
JockoHomo
Quote:
THERE ARE NO ELECTRICAL MEASUREMENTS THAT CORRESPOND TO HOW IT WILL SOUND.
...and there will never be one if we never even try looking for them. My framework provides a logical methodology to accomplish this. If you don't see this now, I'm sure you would if you were in the process of using it. By the way, you're doing an excellent imitation of Max Faget with your posts. I guess that makes me John Houbolt. Life does need a distribution curve to guide it. It's the root meaning of democracy so I find a little perverse when you use the revolutionary war to buttress your argument. The founding fathers would be cringing if they saw the state of affairs in our country today. It's not only the US, just about all the world's nation democracies are broken save maybe Iceland. This is all off topic, let's please direct the discussion toward selecting a project to do with the framework.

_________________
When slugs are hungry for the truth, they find a way to devour the most elaborate lying gardens :)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:18 pm 
Offline
God

Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:50 pm
Posts: 993
Location: Minnesota
I too don't get it. You've been told the exact same thing here and at the pub and yet you still think you know better than everybody else.

What makes you think nobody has tried to find measurements that fit what we hear. What do you think John Curl has been doing for decades. And Rupert Neve and Jocko and Charles Hanson and Bill Johnson and Walt Jung and me and Hutch and Dan Kennedy and on and on and on. How many posts has JC stated that certain models of his amps measured great but sounded like crap. That he made changes to the amp and then it sounded right but he couldn't determine where by measuring what caused the change. I think I'll trust his word more than yours.

Don't put my life on a curve. I've been told for decades I can't do x or y. I went and did it anyway.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 3:32 pm 
Offline
Dog
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:26 pm
Posts: 4981
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
yldouright wrote:
I've never bashed anyone for what they know, particularly anyone who knows audio and if you would look past your nose, you would understand I could be their greatest champion.


I have to ask this - what have you been smoking, lately?

_________________
Carlos Filipe

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the opposite direction." Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 3:51 pm 
Offline
Cow

Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 11:48 pm
Posts: 112
carlosfm
:rolleyes:

Mikeg
Some names you mentioned are icons in audio and deservedly so but even they should not be the arbitors of what sounds good. I'm sorry but that question can only correctly be answered by a distribution curve. The electrical interactions in an audio playback system are complex and the field effects of devices and conduits complicate things further but there has to be a relationship and my framework gives us a better shot of finding it than anything else out there. I have to keep saying this because no one has shown any logical fault in its premises. John Curl and Charles Hansen make gear to their own individual taste and that is as it should be. Their market is skewed by who can bag the wealthiest client and has little to do with a consensus of what most people prefer to hear on a daily basis. In other words, the edict of what sounds good is dictated by money and not fact. My framework creates the fact by consensus. I doubt Parasound and Ayre know the intimate details of each others stuff and that also is as it should be but here in the diy space, we have an opportunity to explore openly different methods and measurements which will provide electrical attributes we can tie to an audibl result. Does THD matter more than IMD, if so, at what levels? How important are higher order harmonics when interacting with other forms of distorition? Is phase angle only an issue for stability or does it have a sonic character? These are the kind of questions that my framework can address better than anything out there. Get over the prejudice of who the message is coming from. What is right is much more important than who is right.

_________________
When slugs are hungry for the truth, they find a way to devour the most elaborate lying gardens :)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:59 pm 
Offline
Muriel
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:45 pm
Posts: 1163
:shock: :wtf: :rolleyes: :scratch:

Image

yldouright wrote:
I'm sorry but that question can only correctly be answered by a distribution curve.


It can? I mean REALLY? It can!?

yldouright wrote:
My framework creates the fact by consensus.


It creates neither consensus nor fact. It creates nothing whatsoever.

yldouright wrote:
Does THD matter more than IMD, if so, at what levels?


Goodness gracious me. You would think we are still stuck in the dark ages.

THD and IMD are ADVERTISING SPECIFICATIONS which correlate with NOTHING WHATSOEVER. I do not need to use your frmework to figure this out. It has been a known fact (among any who do not act like ostriches or the The Audiowhytchfinder General anyway) for a fair few decades too. Just like such things as the limitations oflooped feedback and so on.

yldouright wrote:
How important are higher order harmonics when interacting with other forms of distorition? Is phase angle only an issue for stability or does it have a sonic character?


Most of that is known too. Why don't you ditch your stoopeed framework and make sure you are familiar with the "state of the art" on things audio?

yldouright wrote:
These are the kind of questions that my framework can address better than anything out there.


No, but sorry, it cannot.

Your framework is useless without experiments that require very large numbers of participants to attain statistical significance.

And an experimental setup that at a minimum follows ITU-R BS.1284 "Methods for the subjective assessment of sound quality – General requirements".

Such experiments cost a LOT of money to do at a level where they yield datasets that have any material statistical significance, as you will have pay participants (using pre-biased subjects - be they pro or anti subjectivist raises the noisefloor so much, numbers have to be even more massive).

There are already many excellents frameworks (among them EBU/ITU recommendations) you may avail yourself off, if you have the means to implement the necessary experiments. We do not need another framework that is unsuited to the rask at hand, as there are simply no means to implement such a framework.

So please pack your framework and bury it in a quiet dark placefarfrom civilisation. It is not just useless, it is COUNTERPRODUCTIVE.

Ciao T

_________________
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." Richard Feynman


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:02 pm 
Offline
Benjamin
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 3:29 pm
Posts: 4330
Location: Somewhere other than here.
yldouright wrote:
JockoHomo
Quote:
THERE ARE NO ELECTRICAL MEASUREMENTS THAT CORRESPOND TO HOW IT WILL SOUND.
...and there will never be one if we never even try looking for them.


WHAT THE 'EFF DO YOU THINK WE HAVE DONE FOR ALL OF OUR ADULT LIVES???????????????? Eventually, we figured out there are no measurements.

You really are insulting. Everyone has told you there are no measurements, but you continue to insult us by telling us that we just didn't do it right, and you know something we don't.

Stop.

Get a new hobby.

Go smoke something.

Leave us in peace.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 68 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group